I am not sure if they had it back then. I just know that now there is always a letter stating that. It doesn't really even give legal advice since, at least in the US, family law is so complicated and every case is extremely unique. It just gave a list of cases that courts had ruled that were favorable in the respected country. It is meant so that the publisher can give it to their lawyer so that it will be easier for the lawyer to find the relevant cases. Actually thinking about it, I don't even know that it would be available in every country because obviously, every country is unique with regards to their laws.
John Davis
JoinedPosts by John Davis
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49
Rookie exJW Question
by Phoebe ini was wondering if someone could help me with a question.. i am a rookie exjw, i only left the organization 4 months ago and everything i've discovered (un/arc/malawi/mexico etc) i've only discovered in the last few months so you can image it's been a huge shock to me especially after after 50 yrs!.
every time i think i've heard everything, something else pops up.. now i've come across a youtube video that mention tv evangelizer jimmy swaggart and the watchtower.
i remember jimmy swaggart from the time i lived in the u.s.a and i remember the scandals with him and prostitutes etc.
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49
Rookie exJW Question
by Phoebe ini was wondering if someone could help me with a question.. i am a rookie exjw, i only left the organization 4 months ago and everything i've discovered (un/arc/malawi/mexico etc) i've only discovered in the last few months so you can image it's been a huge shock to me especially after after 50 yrs!.
every time i think i've heard everything, something else pops up.. now i've come across a youtube video that mention tv evangelizer jimmy swaggart and the watchtower.
i remember jimmy swaggart from the time i lived in the u.s.a and i remember the scandals with him and prostitutes etc.
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John Davis
never a jw: most courts that have had this issue raised has determined that JWs are not agents of Watchtower nor is there a fiduciary relationship, so again it would be a question of who would be having to file the taxes with the state.
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103
Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism
by John Davis ini wanted to get people's opinion on something.
how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.
there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.
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John Davis
Ok JP they do comply with the court orders after they have exhausted their rights to appeal. In the Lopez case they exhausted their appeals and are complying. Other than what I can read in the court records that is all I can speak of. I don't answer for watchtower. I can only speak for myself, if I was in a similar situation I would exhaust all of my rights and once I have done so I would then comply.
They will normally file things with the court under seal. You can't do that with a deposition, how can you appeal a decision about the right to depose someone if the deposition has already occurred. You can't unring that bell.
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49
Rookie exJW Question
by Phoebe ini was wondering if someone could help me with a question.. i am a rookie exjw, i only left the organization 4 months ago and everything i've discovered (un/arc/malawi/mexico etc) i've only discovered in the last few months so you can image it's been a huge shock to me especially after after 50 yrs!.
every time i think i've heard everything, something else pops up.. now i've come across a youtube video that mention tv evangelizer jimmy swaggart and the watchtower.
i remember jimmy swaggart from the time i lived in the u.s.a and i remember the scandals with him and prostitutes etc.
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John Davis
Child custody packet is not that secret. Every year there is a letter on the information board that talks about those that are going through a child custody case where the beliefs of JWs maybe raised should talk with the elders so they can request a copy.
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103
Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism
by John Davis ini wanted to get people's opinion on something.
how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.
there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.
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John Davis
JP do you feel the same way in the Lewis v Bellows Falls case where Lewis and her counsel refused to turn over all discoverable evidence because they felt that the information was not relevant and encroached on her rights to privacy even though she was ordered to do so by the court. I am not saying that you do or you don't. But obviously Lewis felt that it was inappropriate to turn it over and refused to do so and asked the court for relief from it, the court denied the relief, but she could have appealed that decision.
Just because a court rules something doesn't make it right, that is why there are appeals and if you think it is a big enough deal then you refuse to turn over that information till you exhaust your appeals and you comply with the highest court's rulings.
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103
Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism
by John Davis ini wanted to get people's opinion on something.
how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.
there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.
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John Davis
I agree with you that people have committed crimes in order to get people's attention but ultimately it was not the illegal actions that cause changes to happen. it is when people go through the proper means that is what causes the changes to happen.
You give the example of those that helped slaves, while that was illegal, those individuals were ready to go to prison for their actions. I think that they didn't try and find ways to justify it to avoid prison, they were willing to suffer the consequences of their illegal actions. And if people today who are doing illegal actions for their activism are ready to go to prison, then that is commendable. I am not willing to do that personally but if other people are that is their choice.
Also, you use whistleblowers as an example, for the most part in the private sector whistleblowers are not committing any crimes, in fact, that they are protected by the law, as long as they do it within the law. Government employees are usually barred from releasing classified or sensitive data, but there are legal means for even these people to report to people that can make needed changes. I just believe you have to do things within the law and how the law prescribes.
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49
Rookie exJW Question
by Phoebe ini was wondering if someone could help me with a question.. i am a rookie exjw, i only left the organization 4 months ago and everything i've discovered (un/arc/malawi/mexico etc) i've only discovered in the last few months so you can image it's been a huge shock to me especially after after 50 yrs!.
every time i think i've heard everything, something else pops up.. now i've come across a youtube video that mention tv evangelizer jimmy swaggart and the watchtower.
i remember jimmy swaggart from the time i lived in the u.s.a and i remember the scandals with him and prostitutes etc.
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John Davis
Also, it is important to know that it was a question of use tax which in California is like sales tax, so the tax would actually be paid by the customer not by the merchant if it was a business or an income tax than it would be paid by the merchant. So in the case of California now instead of 25 cents per magazine, it would be 0.25cents plus 9.25 or a little more depending on the county for the price and the price would be charged to the consumer.
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49
Rookie exJW Question
by Phoebe ini was wondering if someone could help me with a question.. i am a rookie exjw, i only left the organization 4 months ago and everything i've discovered (un/arc/malawi/mexico etc) i've only discovered in the last few months so you can image it's been a huge shock to me especially after after 50 yrs!.
every time i think i've heard everything, something else pops up.. now i've come across a youtube video that mention tv evangelizer jimmy swaggart and the watchtower.
i remember jimmy swaggart from the time i lived in the u.s.a and i remember the scandals with him and prostitutes etc.
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John Davis
never a JW. That is why I said that I am not sure if that was correct or not but that was the argument. But I can actually kind of see the possibility of it being true. it would be who is selling the literature, the Watchtower through an agent or would the retailer be the individual JW. That question would be answered through another lawsuit since it wouldn't have been answered in the Supreme Court case as the Swaggert Ministry's doesn't have individual ministers who were collecting money.
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103
Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism
by John Davis ini wanted to get people's opinion on something.
how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.
there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.
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John Davis
JP is the example you are referring to is the Lopez case where Losch did not attend the deposition. While yes Losch did defy the trial court's decision there is Due Process in the US and part of that is the fact that someone has the right to appeal to a higher level of court. If you don't think that it is right to appeal matters, that don't go in your favour, then I can't argue with you on your belief but it is the reality that is the way it is supposed to happen.
The 4th District Court of Appeals is also not the only court that has ruled that there is a distinction in the corporations and managing directors of those corporations used by Watchtower. There was also a Federal Court in the south that also ruled in that way. Watchtower provided the PMQ to answer questions so I am not sure what Mr Losch would have been able to offer, other than to attempt to humiliate him, which is a violation of California state law.
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49
Rookie exJW Question
by Phoebe ini was wondering if someone could help me with a question.. i am a rookie exjw, i only left the organization 4 months ago and everything i've discovered (un/arc/malawi/mexico etc) i've only discovered in the last few months so you can image it's been a huge shock to me especially after after 50 yrs!.
every time i think i've heard everything, something else pops up.. now i've come across a youtube video that mention tv evangelizer jimmy swaggart and the watchtower.
i remember jimmy swaggart from the time i lived in the u.s.a and i remember the scandals with him and prostitutes etc.
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John Davis
krismalone: I think that Watchtower has hidden a lot but this is not one of those cases. The brief is public record and can be read by anyone. Just because they don't advertise it doesn't mean that they are hiding that fact. Tons of people and organizations will make something public and don't advertise it.
Phoebe: You should read the brief yourself and see what it actually says. The basic idea that Watchtower was trying to say was that there is no difference between providing a message that is spoken and a message that is printed on a piece of paper. So if you are cannot tax the donations given in a religious building during a religious sermon than you shouldn't be able to tax a religious sermon that is printed on the page and is given to someone.
In the brief Watchtower repeatedly stated that they did not take sides with either party in the case but wanted to present how taxation would affect them and their adherants. it only brought up Mr Swaggert's Ministries once at the end to discuss the State Supreme Court's decision and barely mentioned the ministry at all.
But again you should read the brief yourself it shouldn't take more than 20 minutes to get it through. You can also read the full Supreme Court Decision and see what the Supreme Court actually ruled in the Swaggert part of the case.
As a side note, I am not sure if they would have been correct or not, but Watchtower would not have paid this tax but each individual JW would pay the tax from the donation. That would mean that each individual JW would have to register with the state board and any local agencies if a county or city also wanted to tax the literature. So each JW would have had to file a quarterly tax return and send in the money that way.